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CKC Sep 12th, 2012 09:09 am

has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
.....

susan53 Sep 12th, 2012 10:48 am

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
Yes, it should be "He was adopted and has been raised since he was ten by ...".

CKC Sep 13th, 2012 08:26 pm

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
thank you susan.

susan53 Sep 14th, 2012 02:11 am

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
"since" means "from a specified point in the past up to another specified point"- ie the time fram covers two specified points. So its meaning precludes it being used with any verb which specifies one specified point only - eg present/past simple. it can only be used with perfect verbs which express a time frame encompassing two points. Eg :

I have lived here since 2002 (time point 1 2002, time point 2 = now)
In 2008, I had already lived there 6 years. (time point 1 = 2002, time point 2 = 2008)

When the present perfect is used, the second time point is always "now" and doesn't need to be overtly stated. When the past perfect is used, both time points are stated or retrievable from the context.

So, in your example, neither am nor was is possible, as they each express one time point only ( am = now, was =a past point) . Only have been can be used, as it combines both past and present.

CKC Sep 16th, 2012 08:37 pm

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
thanks susan.

susan53 Sep 17th, 2012 01:50 am

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
The Orwell example is interesting - because it's not logical grammatically, and officially a "mistake". As you say, had been should be used. I think here there's the tension between the fact that he's writing about the past, but uses "at present" (meaning "at that time") to give the narrative a sense of dramatic immediacy. That leads to confusion between the adverbials and the verb forms.
But sorry, what your teacher said is definitely not possible.

CKC Sep 17th, 2012 07:09 pm

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
thank you susan.

CKC Sep 19th, 2012 05:30 am

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
thanks.

susan53 Sep 20th, 2012 01:46 am

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
Hazlitt lived 200 years ago. As have said before, it is pointless trying to understand language that far ago in terms of contemporary English. The grammar was different and of little relevance to us as language teachers today. As long as you understand the meaning, just accept that there will be differences. Here Hazlitt is clearly using a be + adjective construction while today we would use a verb : The contemporary version would be "whether he has died since then". If something has been written in the last fifty years, then it's probably of interest. Later than that and differences will slowly start to creep in, both of grammar and lexis. Go back a hundred years and you'll certainly find things that wouldn't be said nowadays. So it's pointless saying of such texts "I don't understand why..." 99.9% of the time the answer will be the same : because it's not contemporary English and the lexis and grammar used were different then.

CKC Sep 20th, 2012 07:42 am

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
thanks

CKC Sep 27th, 2012 08:00 pm

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
thanks.

susan53 Sep 28th, 2012 12:17 am

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
No. because the form is still wrong. It must be : He was adopted, and has been raised since he was 3 ... etc

CKC Sep 28th, 2012 07:25 pm

Re: has been adopted and raised since he was three.
 
thanks.


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