[openmind]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to let you know I have been trawling the Internet for ESL related sites since late 1995 and I must admit that eslHQ is really the headquarters of the online ESL community. There lots of sites our there that started earlier and they have more members, more posts, more traffic, more of many things but quality is more important than quantity. And no other ESL site has so many new and interesting features like yours so keep it up folks!

[livinginkorea]

I tend to agree with you openmind. There are so many sites out there that only adveritse jobs or where people constantly complain about their jobs and the country that they are in. I really enjoy teaching and it is the future for me. I think that this site has already helped me a great deal as I am teaching at an elementary school for the past year now so I have used some of the games and flash cards here.

I think that there are so many different ESL sites for various other things but for serious teachers or for people who want some help to be better teachers I think this site is very very valuable and has to be the best site that I have come across.

It's a pity that there is not as much interaction here as other sites but then again that shows you how much some people care about teaching. I would much prefer to meet a small group of serious minded teachers then a larger group of half-assed teachers!!

[openmind]

Your site will continue to grow, people will spread the word and that's the important thing. You have to keep in mind that it Dave Sperling and Co more than 10 years to achieve their level of popularity. 10 is an eternity in the Internet world but a very short period of time in the 'real' corporate world. Also, what really counts is not how many people are using your site right now but how far you can plan into the future. If you can envision what the market will be like in 1 to 5 years and you create a written business plan then it doesn't matter how many or how few users come to your site now because you know exactly where you are going...

[livinginkorea]

Also Dave Sperling is all about the job board and making cash, this isn't (at least I don't think so).

I think that cash will always change people's opinions. The fact that you don't have to pay for the lesson plans and flash cards is definitely a big plus.

[openmind]

That's right. Dave Sperling started out without making any cash initially too. Back in 1995 only very few people would believe the Internet would ever take off let alone see the potential in creating an ESL website. Also, you will always get paid back for anything you do. Maybe you are not making a lot money from your website now but the upside potential is huge...

[mesmark]

It's definitely a saturated market this whole ESL site thing and most people are in it for the cash. There is a big big market here in the EFL industry and plenty of people want a piece. However, I agree with openmind that there is more to it than just the change on the side of the curb. Most web sites are looking for the quick dime and for teachers to fork that over, but it me off.

Now, don't get me wrong, these web sites cost real money to run (not to mention time.) There are server fees, programs that need to be bought, licenses that need to maintained... But, what some people charge for and what others actually pay for makes me laugh.

[livinginkorea]

One example would be the EFL-Law site. It's a site that helps teacher who have some problems and need some law advice like breaking a contract or when the boss does X,Y and Z. Anyway that site is now a paid site and I heard that it's not going so well. Seems that the main guy is not even a lawyer.

At this day and age there is so much information on the net for teachers that we shouldn't have to pay for any site. I understand that you have to pay for maintaining it all but the question is how do you do that? If you start to charge people then they will not join in the first place unless they have prior knowledge that it's a good site. Many new people would be turned off and then again you would have to pay the credit card company and some security company as well etc to keep it all save.

Seems like a huge headache! I'm happy that I'm just a member

[mesmark]

Quote livinginkorea

At this day and age there is so much information on the net for teachers that we shouldn't have to pay for any site. I understand that you have to pay for maintaining it all but the question is how do you do that? If you start to charge people then they will not join in the first place unless they have prior knowledge that it's a good site. Many new people would be turned off and then again you would have to pay the credit card company and some security company as well etc to keep it all save.

Well, most sites start out free and build up traffic, links, and a nice reputation (like your law site.) Then, they change over. Some just start a premium membership for all the really good downloads/services. However, some sites are coming back down to Earth and realising that others will just pop-up and fill their shoes. Some sites that were once pay (an fell off the map) are now back to free.

It's not all that bad. Sites that provide good service and quality resources deserve to be paid for their efforts and the time they save teachers. Some sites provide resources that make teachers look really good in their classrooms or save them loads of time. Also, for some websites this is their job, not just a hobby.

[openmind]

Let's say you were offering the best service or a better service with better products (materials + one to one training sessions over Skype incorporating Internet resources and providing networking opportunities for business professionals with various cultural backgrounds, recording the Skype sessions for further editing and use etc) - why shouldn't you charge for it? You would not teach English for free in a language school, would you?

[mesmark]

Quote openmind

Let's say you were offering the best service or a better service with better products ... why shouldn't you charge for it? You would not teach English for free in a language school, would you?

I absolutely agree. I think what you're thinking of is much larger than what I'm talking about.

Also, if you set out to make an internet company your going to need to generate revenue. I'm not against making money on the internet and I think plenty of places provide quality and reputable services.

[openmind]

Hi Mark, I think there are a number of business principles that work in the 'offline' world as well as online. For example, one of Google's success principles is 'Focus on the user and everything else will follow'. If you can create a profitable internet company in your mind, you will also find the means to materialize your plans. There are many examples of this principle. It really depends on what you want and what you are willing to give in return.

[Eric]

Quote openmind

Hi guys,

Just wanted to let you know I have been trawling the Internet for ESL related sites since late 1995 and I must admit that eslHQ is really the headquarters of the online ESL community. There lots of sites our there that started earlier and they have more members, more posts, more traffic, more of many things but quality is more important than quantity. And no other ESL site has so many new and interesting features like yours so keep it up folks!

Thanks, openmind!

OK, my 2 cents. I think for a site to continue to grow in traffic and popularity you are going to have to think about the business model of the site. Unless you have funding or are well off and don't need to monetize the site, you'll just end up dumping more and more money into your server to cover bandwidth and storage expenses.

There are different ways to monetize a site. Most sites use ads. Some charge fees and memberships. Some sell books and other physical products. Some rely on donations.

In a perfect world, folks would donate. But, usually that's not the case.

In another perfect world, ads would pay way more per click and you never run the risk of being kicked out of the ad network. You can't put all your eggs into the ad basket. That can be pulled out from under you overnight.

So the only sure fire way to monetize a site, if you have the content, is to charge for stuff. But you NEED content.

Personally, I don't have a problem with charging for memberships to access materials if the materials are good and plentiful. That being said, there are only a few sites out there, imo, that meet that criteria. And i think that stuff works itself out in the end. Users aren't going to pay for a site where there isnt much there. Next thing you know, the site goes free again.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on this matter.

Eric

[openmind]

Hi Eric, you are perfectly right and agree with everything you've said. You need a clear and detailled business plan that covers at least the following points:

- your target market(s)

- the benefits and value your target group receive from and through your site

- your business model (advertising, selling products and services, free content and features to build a community and network)

- technical requirements and development of new features

- synergy elements and partnerships

Might not make dramatic reading but if you write everything down as detailled as possible you will see that you can't fail and that you can create much more value through your site than you would ever be able by teaching the convential way. Teaching means you get paid per hour, for your input. Creating a website and viewing it as business rather than a hobby means you will get paid for the output (the outcome) and you will get paid many times and not per time unit. When you stop teaching what happens to your income? When you take the time and energy to create a business in your head and then write it out (this might take several weeks or months or sometimes years), you create a tool, a system that will function even without you because you enable other people to participate. When you teach, you basically are own your own. Maybe there is a the director of your school but he or she might be more concerned with administration than with creating more value. When you see your website as a business, you can generate value for more than just your students...

[esllou]

I thought I would reply to this as it touches on my experience very directly. esl-lounge has been on the web since 2000 and I have been through it all. 90% of our site is still free and it will always remain so. But with hosting expenses as well as those "time" expenses, which are never put into these equations, I had to monetize the site from 2004/2005.

Back then I was eating through over 100gb in traffic every single month and spending around $1000 in hosting fees annually. Why? Because I happen to use the Rolls Royce of hosting companies (FutureQuest) who not only provide 99.9% uptime guarantee but have never taken more than 10 minutes to reply to a support query...even when it's 4am in Florida, where they're based. But that standard of hosting comes at a cost. I have other less mission-critical sites hosted elsewhere for a third of the price, but for my ESL site, I would never have made the decision to go to a cheap host and save $500 like that. So I had to find that money.

I made the decision to open a "premium" site last September and it has been an enormous success. It's true, I have also seen plenty of "pay sites" done badly and then return to the free fold, tail between their legs. My pay site is going from strength to strength and we are about to start print advertising around the world.

I think the reason for its success is because I decided: if I'm going to make people pay, it has to be for a higher quality product, not just the freebie worksheets that are on my free site. So that's what we have. I won't turn this post into an advert - I just wanted to give the view from where I stand.

I believe the ESL world is big and ugly enough to support all types of sites: job sites, freebie worksheets, podcasts, big forums and a few pay-for-quality sites too.

I started teaching in 1993 and I can tell you, if the internet had existed then.....(OK, I'll stop there! )