[achobo]

I've been watching this post for awhile now and I thought I would chime in with my own thoughts on a few points.

First, any foreigner in another country is a guest no matter how long they've been there regardless of taxes payed or properties held. They should be respectful of what the government wishes to be taught in the classroom despite their own beliefs. Besides the fact that you are a guest of the country, you are also an employee of a school and should always teach within the parameters of what they think is appropriate. If any teacher feels like they are compromising their belief, whether religious belief or not, they should consider teaching at another school over even finding another country. This is a hard and fast rule of courtesy.

Second, I've taught in China at a military institution for three years now and I've had little problem talking about religion in any of my classes, but I make sure to speak from a secular view. I mention that Christmas is the celebration of the birth of a man named Jesus who the Christians believe to be the son of God. I also mention how that part of Christmas has been toned down in recent years and turned into more of a festive shopping frenzy by large corporation America. I also mention other religious holidays and make a point to ask about the Chinese religious holidays and beliefs. When asked about the culture of America I also explain how it has been shaped by Protestantism. To sum all this up, I never shy away from talking about religion in my class, no matter which religion, and I have never had a problem, which brings me to my next point.

Third, there is a huge difference between teaching and indoctrinating. I will refrain from detailing the differences here as I assume all parties involved in this debate well know the differences. As long as the point of the in-class discussion is informing and not changing of beliefs then I've never seen a teacher have a problem with explaining anything that has to do with religion. The indoctrinating comes with statements like, "Jesus was born on Christmas". This is statement is stating a fact when it is not a fact but only a belief and stating it as such becomes indoctrination. I use the phrase "only a belief" not to insult, but to stress that a classroom is not a place for beliefs but only facts. In this regard facts are much more important than beliefs.

Fourth, calling someone out on who they are for the sake of an argument is out of line. You not only insult the person you are stereotyping, but also the people that you hit in the "buck-shot" accusations you make.

[mesmark]

Quote achobo

First, any foreigner in another country is a guest no matter how long they've been there regardless of taxes payed or properties held. They should be respectful of what the government wishes to be taught in the classroom despite their own beliefs.

Well, I understand what you are saying and can I agree that I'm a "visitor", not necessarily a guest.

Quote achobo

Fourth, calling someone out on who they are for the sake of an argument is out of line. You not only insult the person you are stereotyping, but also the people that you hit in the "buck-shot" accusations you make.

To that, I see your point. I will take back my comment and admit that it was out of line.

Can I ask that we all, not just here, but in other places start adding "I think ..." "I believe ..." "..., in my opinion." or things like that?

[achobo]

Well, I understand what you are saying and can I agree that I'm a "visitor", not necessarily a guest.

I don't necessarily see the difference between the two as someone who visits somewhere is usually referred to as a guest. But this is arguing semantics, which is something I have no interest in. The point I was trying to make is that anyone who is working for someone else must be respectful of what their employer allows. This is not only true when teaching in another country but is also applicable at any job. It just so happens that when working overseas you have two "employers" per se, the school and the country.

Can I ask that we all, not just here, but in other places start adding "I think ..." "I believe ..." "..., in my opinion." or things like that?

I agree whole heartily that people add things like this to their speech on a daily basis. It is the sentence structure of choice when talking about belief. Not only for religion, but other topics such as politics and economics as well.

I am going to be presumptuous and guess where you are going with a question such as this. Belief does pervade our daily lives and many things people take as solid facts are considered beliefs by others. A prime example is the arrangement between creationism and evolution that subtly creeped into this thread. Stating "facts" such as these is equivalent to stating beliefs because they can not be scientifically proven either way at this point. These types of "belief-facts" are especially dangerous as they can be partially proven by science and are often taken as true facts.

But that line of thinking aside, we are teaching English as a Second Language and debates and pitfalls such as these can be easily sidestepped as they are not the focus of the class. Saying "These people believe this..." is sufficient to explain any holiday or phenomenon sufficiently for the class. Again, I believe phrases such as you mentioned earlier have no place in the classroom because they are words of indoctrination.

I apologize if my assumptions on where you were going with that question are wrong.