eslHQ Home
User Name Password
Lost Password? | Join eslHQ.com, it's FREE!
View today's posts
Search Extras Help   

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Unread May 10th, 2014, 01:43 am
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default What does the pattern mean?

Hi,
What does the pattern 'it's true that...but...' mean in the sentence? When would you use this pattern?

1. "It's true that the singer is beautiful, but she can't sing."

Do the two sentences below mean the same?

2. It's true that he's very hard-working, but I still don't think he's the right man for the job.
Although he's very hard-working, I still don't think he's the right man for the job.

Thank you.

Last edited by fface : May 12th, 2014 at 01:40 am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Unread May 18th, 2014, 10:37 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Hi,
Could anyone please help me with my questions?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Unread May 20th, 2014, 09:07 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

It's true...but is, as you say, much the same as saying "although" - you're expressing concession, which means that you state /"concede") a point which seems to be leading in a certain direction but then changes tack. So :
Although he's very hard-working, I still don't think he's right for the job.
= It's true that he's very hardworking, but I still don't think he's right for the job.

So - you start by stating a positive point which leads the listener to think you're going to recommend employing the person. But then you change direction and say something quite different (and therefore, in context, surprising). That's concession.

Another example. If I say he studies 12 hours a day the logical and unsurprising conclusion would be that he's made a lot of progress. So...

Although he studies 12 hours a day, he hasn't made any progress in the last three months.
= It's true that he studies 12 hours a day, but he hasn't made any progress in the last three months.

Hope that helps??
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Unread May 21st, 2014, 12:03 am
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Hi susan,

This is the definition of 'it's true that...' quoted from an online dictionary:

[especially spoken used when you are admitting that something is correct, but saying that something else, often opposite, is also correct]

Do you think the statement above is true? Would you use the pattern when admitting something... and use 'although...' when implying surprise?

Thank you very much for your reply.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Unread May 22nd, 2014, 04:46 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Yes - it's the same as what I said. "Surprising" doesn't mean "incredibly emotional" - just not a predictable development from the other proposition.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 1st, 2014, 03:58 am
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Hi Susan,
What's the small meaning difference between these two sentences here?

1. "It's the case that all the students in the class past the exam.
2. "It's true that all the students in the class past the exam.

Thanks a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 2nd, 2014, 11:03 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

First of all - passed, not past

I don't see any difference in meaning. However it's the case that... sounds odd to me. I've fed both of them into a concordancer and got 5 instances per 2m words for "it's true that" and none for "it's the case that"

I then tried other variations and found it did come up - again 5 instances per 2m words when combined with modal verbs and adverbs :

it is also THE CASE THAT, until recently, the private bond market was...
it will usually be THE CASE THAT the cumulative effect of...
it's no longer THE CASE THAT the, that the owner of...
it is often THE CASE THAT reeds, rushes and irises are expected to


I seems to be the adverb which is crucial to making it sound natural.

it's true that... on the other hand seems to be used predominantly on its own, though the adverbs quite/undoubtedly/certainly/probably also occur, as do connectives such as however/none the less/also and adverbs of frequenccy - usually/always. Doing a wider search of 16 million words I found 37 occurrences of It is true that... as opposed to 13 with an adverb incorporated - eg:

It is probably TRUE THAT in most online...
it's quite TRUE THAT erm, it's rare...
it is usually, though not always, TRUE THAT long-haul shipment by rail
it is also TRUE THAT Braque was the..
.

So : I'd say the normal use is :
It's true that - on it's own or with an adverb incorporated
It's the case that - usually only with and adverb incorporated.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 3rd, 2014, 03:50 am
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Hi susan,

Thank you for your correction.
Why does the speaker add 'it's true that...' in this example "It's true that all the students in the class passed the exam." In what contexts would you do so like the sentence here?

Thank you very much.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 5th, 2014, 11:09 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

How about...

It's true that all the students passed the exam, but I still think the teacher is the worst in the school.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 5th, 2014, 11:09 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

How about...

It's true that all the students passed the exam, but I still think the teacher is the worst in the school.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 7th, 2014, 05:47 am
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Hi Susan,
Can I use the pattern it's true that...but... instead of although... in all cases?
For example:
1. We enjoyed our camping holiday although it rained every day.

Can I say:
2. "It's true that it rained every day, but We enjoyed our camping holiday." instead of #1 to mean the same thing?

Thank you very much.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 10th, 2014, 07:59 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Sorry - I replied to this before but it doesn't seem to have posted ...

It's true that... is more emphatic than although and would be used to refute someone arguing the other case.... Because of the emphasis you'll often find it coupled with a word like nevertheless or still

A : She can't be that bad. Look at the results she got in the last exams.
B : Yes, well - it's true that the students all passed, but I still think she's a lousy teacher. If you ask me, her lessons were so incomprehensible that her students all did loads of work at home to make up.

A: You must have had a terrible holiday with all that bad weather. You really picked the wrong week to go camping.
B: Oh it wasn't that bad. It's true that it rained every day, but we had a good time nevertheless.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 11th, 2014, 11:02 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Quote:
Quote susan53 View Post

A : She can't be that bad. Look at the results she got in the last exams.
B : Yes, well - it's true that the students all passed, but I still think she's a lousy teacher. If you ask me, her lessons were so incomprehensible that her students all did loads of work at home to make up.

A: You must have had a terrible holiday with all that bad weather. You really picked the wrong week to go camping.
B: Oh it wasn't that bad. It's true that it rained every day, but we had a good time nevertheless.
Hi Susan,
Thank you very much for your great examples. Would it also sound natural to use 'although...' in your two examples?

A : She can't be that bad. Look at the results she got in the last exams.
B : Yes, well -although the students all passed, I still think she's a lousy teacher. If you ask me, her lessons were so incomprehensible that her students all did loads of work at home to make up.

A: You must have had a terrible holiday with all that bad weather. You really picked the wrong week to go camping.
B: Oh it wasn't that bad. Although it rained every day, we had a good time.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 12th, 2014, 02:37 pm
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

No - it's not emphatic enough. remember that if you put something in a subordinate clause, you're saying that it's less important than the proposition in the main clause. It's just about possible if you turn them around and use "even though" plus the operator to add emphatic stress :

A : She can't be that bad. Look at the results she got in the last exams.
B : Yes, well - I still think she's a lousy teacher, even though the students did all pass.

A: You must have had a terrible holiday with all that rain. You really picked the wrong week to go camping.
B: Oh it wasn't that bad. We still had a good time, even though it did rain every day.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 15th, 2014, 04:19 am
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Hi susan,

When can I use the sentence pattern "it's true that..." without being followed by a "but" clause?
Could you please give an example of it with context?

Thank you very much.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 18th, 2014, 04:48 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Eg : As a "completing comment" when you're fed up with the discussion and want to move on without fully agreeing or disagreeing with the other point of view. Eg a head teacher and assistant head teacher are discussing another teacher's performance. The HT has been arguing that it's weak while the AHT has been puting forward positive points. the HT wants to close the discussion and move on :

HT : Yes, well, I suppose it's true that she gets good results. Now - what about Adam Johnson?

If you want other examples, feed it into a concordancer . Try Lextutor. Type "it's true that" into the "Keyword box, and then select "All of the above" from the "Choose a corpus" box. Then click on "Get concordance"
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 18th, 2014, 05:20 am
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 125
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

Quote:
Quote susan53 View Post
HT : Yes, well, I suppose it's true that she gets good results. Now - what about Adam Johnson?
Hi susan,
What does 'to get good results' mean here?
Thank you very much for your great example. You've been very helpful!
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Unread Jun 20th, 2014, 01:41 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,336
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: What does the pattern mean?

it means that her students do well in exams, or by whatever other criteria they are evaluated.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Find the Best TEFL, TESL, TESOL & CELTA Certification Courses - User Submitted Ratings & Reviews for Online, Distance & Abroad TEFL Courses. Over 3,500 reviews of 100+ TEFL schools!

Teach English in Thailand - Onsite and Combined TEFL certification courses in Phuket, Thailand.


Free ESL Flashcards




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 am.

All materials from this website are for classroom-use only. Digital redistribution of materials, in part or in whole, is strictly forbidden!

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2