eslHQ Home
User Name Password
Lost Password? | Join eslHQ.com, it's FREE!
View today's posts
Search Extras Help   

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 7th, 2018, 01:44 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default fair game

Hi,

1. What does 'fair game' mean here?

"It's all fair game if they even think they can trace it to ill-gotten games."

2. What does 'flip on someone' mean?

"Ted is still at large and they want John to flip on him."

Thank you very much.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 8th, 2018, 04:48 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,330
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

1. Fair game

"Game" = animals shot for sport or food. Eg someone who hunts lions and other large predators is known as a "big game hunter". Obviously there are strict regulations for hunting - seasons when you can and can't hunt certain animals, regulations concerning whether the animal must be male or female, what age it must have reached etc. So if something is "fair game" it means that you are hunting it legally, following the rules.

The expression is generally used metaphorically, as in your example. As another example, if a politician has made pre-election promises which were not kept after the election, then s/he is "fair game" for criticism by the opposition, the media etc - ie they have the right (=it's fair) to attack (=hunt) him/her.

Notice that you've misquoted the final expression in your example. It should be "ill-gotten gains". "ill" is used in its old meaning of "badly", so "ill-gotten gains" are things that have been acquired illegally or unfairly in some way.

You don't give the source, but I traced it to an episode of Desperate Housewives (oh, the wonders of Google!). One of the characters (Gabrielle) is talking to her lawyer who seems to be explaining that another character (her husband?) intends to take her to court and claim the right to all her money/possessions (ie her "gains"). She is saying that, in fact, they were all legally acquired by her (ie are "fair game") even if her husband's lawyers will claim that they are not legally hers but "ill-gotten".

2. Ted is still at large and they want John to flip on him

First of all, you need to understand that "at large" means still free, and not yet arrested by the police. A criminal might be "at large" because the police can't find him/her or, as it seems in this case, because they don't have the proof necessary for the arrest. That's why they want John to "flip on" him - ie to betray him and give them the evidence they need to arrest him.

Hope that's all clear.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course

Last edited by susan53 : Dec 8th, 2018 at 10:27 am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 9th, 2018, 04:11 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

Hi susan,

After reading your reply, I'm afraid I'm still confused about 'fair game' in that context. I'm sorry I didn't give you the source in the first place and sorry about the typo (ill-gotten games). Here is more context quoted from the internet as follows:

"FBI:FBI. Open the door.Carlos Solis, I have a warrant for your arrest.

Judge Sullivan: "So, what's your issue with bail in this case, Ms. McCready?
Ms. McCready: "We want bail denied, your honor. The defendant's company imported goods manufactured by slave labor, and his business partner, Mr. Tenaka, has already fled the country. And Mr. Solis, himself, has refused to surrender his passport."

Judge Sullivan: "Dog ate your client's passport, Mr. Hartley?"
Mr. Hartley: "It's been temporarily misplaced, your honor, but we maintain that Akisha Tenaka set up and executed the entire operation. Mr. Solis is no business partner, but merely a hired contractor. And I'd also like to point out that my client is the sole provider of his wife, and his mother, who is hospitalized in a coma as we speak."

Judge Sullivan: "Bring me the passport, and Mr. Solis can visit his mother. Until then, your client is denied bail and remanded. What's next?"。

Gabrielle: "Yao Lin, listen to me. It's very important that we find Carlos' passport. I've already looked through his office, so I need you to search the bedroom."
Gabrielle: "What?"
Yao Lin: "With Mr. Solis in jail, how are you going to pay me? I have children."
Gabrielle: "Yao Lin, your kids are in their twenties. If it'll make you shut up..."
Gabrielle: "Here. Three weeks in advance."

Yao Lin: "If you don't mind, can I call your bank?"
Gabrielle: "Yao Lin, don't be stupid. People don't become poor overnight."
Gabrielle: "Huh? That's my car! Oh my god!"
Gabrielle: "Hey! Hey! What are you doing? Where are you taking my car?"
Tow guy: "The government is impounding it. Here's your receipt. Call that number if you have any questions."

Gabrielle: "How am I supposed to live without a car?"
Lawyer: "Gabrielle, listen. Tanaka is still at large, and they're going to want Carlos to flip on him, so this is their way of playing hardball. Now, I'm guessing that they've not done yet."

Gabrielle: "Why? What else could they take from us?"
Lawyer: "Pretty much anything. It's all fair game if they even think they can trace it to ill-gotten gains

Gabrielle: "No, no, no. No! Some of this stuff is mine. When I modeled. Before I even met Carlos! See this, kosta boda, bought it when I landed my first cover. This, I spent eight hours on a rock in a bikini for that painting!"

Lawyer: "I understand how you feel."
Gabrielle: "No, you don't understand. I have dug myself up from dirt to afford these things, and no one is going to take them away from me!"
Lawyer: "Then I suggest you find yourself a good hiding place. They can't take what they can't find. Oh, and if you could scare up that passport too, that would be good!"

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 10th, 2018, 03:18 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,330
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

It's the same as I said except that the context suggests that it's the police / other authorities rather than her husband who are trying to take things. They've impounded her car - claiming that her husband Carlos is Tanaka's business partner and is therefore implicated in his crimes. If he doesn't co-operate (flip on Tanaka) they are liable to start impounding other things - the family's house, bank account, whatever. The lawyer is explaining that the police see it all as "fair game" - ie things they can rightfully take from Carlos as all the things have been acquired illegally (are ill-gotten gains). But of course if they do, it will affect his wife, Gabrielle, which is why she's worrying.

The only odd thing about the sentence is "even if" which would make much more sense if it was "given that". A slip in the filming that wasn't noticed maybe.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course

Last edited by susan53 : Dec 17th, 2018 at 02:21 am.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 16th, 2018, 03:36 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

Quote:
Quote susan53 View Post
First of all, you need to understand that "at large" means still free, and not yet arrested by the police. A criminal might be "at large" as it seems in this case, because they don't have the proof necessary for the arrest. That's why they want John to "flip on" him - ie to betray him and give them the evidence they need to arrest him.

Hope that's all clear.
Hi susan,

Can I use 'on the run' in the context above because the police don't have the proof necessary they need to arrest him?

Thanks a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 17th, 2018, 02:21 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,330
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

No - because if the police don't have the necessary proof for to arrest a specific person, then there is no reason for the suspect to be "hiding". If I say "the criminal is still at large" it means either
a) The police don't know who the criminal is (or can't prove it even if they suspect) and therefore no specific individual is implicated. They just know that there is a criminal and s/he is still free.
or
b) The police know who the criminal is and have enough proof for the arrest, but can't find the person. S/he is "on the run"
So, as I said, "at large" can be used in both contexts, but "on the run" is more specific and restricted to the second situation.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 22nd, 2018, 03:22 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

Hi susan,

What's the difference between "at large" and "on the loose"?

Thank you very much.
I wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 24th, 2018, 07:58 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,330
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

I think they're more or less synonymous. Eg here they'd be interchangeable :

1.With a dangerous and convicted murderer ON THE LOOSE and various alleged sightings of her, authorities hoped to quickly allay public concerns..

When the person/animal/thing is free but restricted to a certain area, then maybe on the loose is more likely - eg:

2. More than 100 prisoners are still ON THE LOOSE in 5 wings of the jail
3. Mystery drone still ON THE LOOSE at Gatwick airport.

On the loose
gives prominence to the idea of "free/uncaptured" whereas at large gives more prominence to the idea "it could be anywhere". So it depends which aspect you want to emphasise.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 28th, 2018, 04:31 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

Quote:
Quote susan53 View Post
I think they're more or less synonymous. Eg here they'd be interchangeable :

1.With a dangerous and convicted murderer ON THE LOOSE and various alleged sightings of her, authorities hoped to quickly allay public concerns..
Hi susan,
Does 'on the run' also sound natural in the example above?

Can I use at large and on the run in the example below?

"More than 100 prisoners are still ON THE LOOSE in 5 wings of the jail"


Thanks a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 28th, 2018, 05:19 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

Quote:
Quote susan53 View Post
If I say "the criminal is still at large" it means either
a) The police don't know who the criminal is (or can't prove it even if they suspect) and therefore no specific individual is implicated. They just know that there is a criminal and s/he is still free.
or
b) The police know who the criminal is and have enough proof for the arrest, but can't find the person. S/he is "on the run"
So, as I said, "at large" can be used in both contexts, but "on the run" is more specific and restricted to the second situation.
Can I use 'on the loose' in both situations like 'at large' above?

Thank you very much.

Last edited by susan53 : Dec 29th, 2018 at 05:16 am.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 29th, 2018, 05:23 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,330
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

In the first - yes. No-one knows who or where the murderer is, but there certainlyisa murderer and s/he is therefore "on the loose"


In the second, no if you are referring to the person suspected. You can only be "on the loose" if you can't be found. in the second case, the police know where their suspect is, they just don't have enough evidence to do anything.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Unread Dec 30th, 2018, 04:17 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

Quote:
Quote susan53 View Post


the police know where their suspect is, they just don't have enough evidence to do anything.
Hi susan,

In this situation above, can I say the suspect is at large or on the loose?

Thanks a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Unread Jan 1st, 2019, 03:53 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,330
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

No - it's not the suspect who is on the loose/at large, but the criminal.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Unread Jan 3rd, 2019, 05:49 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

Quote:
Quote susan53 View Post

When the person/animal/thing is free but restricted to a certain area, then maybe on the loose is more likely - eg:

2. More than 100 prisoners are still ON THE LOOSE in 5 wings of the jail
Hi susan,

What does this sentence above mean? Does it mean those prisoners escaped from the jail and still can't be found?

Can I use 'at large' or 'on the run' instead of 'on the loose' here?

Thank you for your reply.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Unread Jan 4th, 2019, 03:13 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,330
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

No - it means that they are free within that area (the 5 wings of the jail) and can't be controlled and confined to their cells. The authorities don't know exactly where any one prisoner is within the prison and the prisoners are in charge. As I said before "on the loose" = free and uncaptured, which is the situation here.
As I also said before at large is less likely in this context, and on the run is impossible because they can't "run" anywhere - they're still confined within the prison. Again, see the previous comments - on the run = in hiding. These prisoners aren't hiding. Their general location is known.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Unread Jan 5th, 2019, 05:29 pm
eslHQ Zealot
 
Join Date: Mar 12th, 2013
Posts: 119
fface is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

Quote:
Quote susan53 View Post


You can only be "on the loose" if you can't be found.
Hi susan,

I don't understand what you mean here?
Do you mean a suspect who can't be found by the police is on the loose but not at large or on the run?

Many thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Unread Jan 6th, 2019, 09:01 am
Sue
 
Join Date: Oct 8th, 2006
Location: Milan
Posts: 1,330
susan53 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: fair game

No - and you've taken my explanation out of context. You were then talking specifically about a suspect, not a wanted criminal. A suspect is an ordinary person without restrictions, and can therefore be wherever they want to be. When you're talking about a suspect, none of these expressions is really relevant. There is no reason why they should not be "free" or "under control".

You must distinguish between a suspect and a wanted criminal. To summarise:

If a criminal - ie someone who the police want to arrest for a crime - is in hiding and cannot be found, then s/he can be described as "on the loose", "at large" or "on the run" - all three are fine.

- on the loose : free, potentially dangerous or disruptive and not under control
- at large : free, potentially dangerous or disruptive and not under control
- on the run : free, wanted by and in hiding from the police

I don't think there's any more I can say about these expressions. Perhaps someone else could clarify them better.
__________________
An ELT Notebook
The DELTA Course
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads Replies
Kings A grammar game! 19
Great chair switch game for vocab 2
Games for small groups? 16
Question Quest : The Language Card Game 1
Soccer Game (printable game board) 22

Find the Best TEFL, TESL, TESOL & CELTA Certification Courses - User Submitted Ratings & Reviews for Online, Distance & Abroad TEFL Courses. Over 3,500 reviews of 100+ TEFL schools!

Teach English in Thailand - Onsite and Combined TEFL certification courses in Phuket, Thailand.


Free ESL Flashcards


Similar Threads Replies
Kings A grammar game! 19
Great chair switch game for vocab 2
Games for small groups? 16
Question Quest : The Language Card Game 1
Soccer Game (printable game board) 22


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 pm.

All materials from this website are for classroom-use only. Digital redistribution of materials, in part or in whole, is strictly forbidden!

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2